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Thoughts and ramblings

Before I continue, I would like to say that I mean no disrespect of any kind to the people in providence region. nor am I trying to contribute to a propaganda campaign.

I just have a few thoughts on gaming in general which this campaign in to providence has made me think about. Particularly the part where today, with 400 in local, the vast majority of which were -A- and Ushra’Khan we reinforced the station in 9UY without even a wimper of coordinated resistance.

TL;DNR:
My new theory: Role players may not be of the type of person that are able to beat those that are playing the game for the purposes of being good at it, for winning.

Let me explain:

I am a type of gamer who plays to be the best, I don’t play games for fun, I play for the satisfaction that comes from winning. I joined the Northern Coalition and then Against All Authorities because they are among the best in the game at what they do. I wanted to experience all there is to experience, and I want my alliance (and by extension, me) to win. As a result of this, I will shut up on Team Speak when the FC is talking, I will do exactly as he/she says, I will bring the best ship I can, fitted exactly as the alliance leaders dictate. When there’s a CTA on I will be in fleet and on voice chat and I will do my absolute best to be the best at my role in fleet. I try to have my “game face” on at all times.

Recently, during the lockdown of D-G one of our FC’s said that when CVA + pets were bubbled in their own POS, instead of jumping out, they should have dropped the POS forcefield and started shooting. That’s what our FC’s would have done.

Recently in a campaign against the goons, the goons defeated the -A-/IT attack by reinforcing their own ihub. They wanted to win, they used game mechanics to do it.

-A- are committed to winning this war and we will use every legitimate tool at our disposal to do it.

My alliance leadership are the same. They want to win at all costs, it’s what they enjoy doing. I am going to reproduce a post from the -A- forums here – I hope it doesn’t get me into trouble, but I’m sure it’s fairly harmless:

During this campaign: DO NOT EVER EVER EVER TALK IN LOCAL….If you have something to say ….do it in corp/alliance/ and if its damn important ..gang. Kill provi with silence. Kill Provi with guns. Kill them any other way but trying to do it in local. Close local.. Keep it closed. I know that the smack comes from other alliances as well. -A- will not do it. Burn it all to the ground with a grin on your face.

What is providence supposed to do in the face of such cold determination?

Does a roleplayer even play for the same reasons? I don’t know, I’ve never really met any.

My theory is No. I believe having dedicated roleplayers who truly get pleasure out of playing this game for those reasons at the head of your alliance will cause them to be less focussed on winning and more about “fun” or whatever roleplay reasons they have chosen to adopt.

Perhaps I am an ignorant non-role-player, but I have an image in my head of a fat guy playing mock up medieval battles with foam swords Vs a hardened heavy cavalry knight from the actual middle ages.

Proviholders
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-A-/U’K

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or perhaps this image would be a better representation of the current state of affairs:

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Am I being too harsh/Ignorant? do I have a valid point perhaps?

This is a campaign that relies on the morale of the enemy breaking, one of the reasons that 9UY was chosen as a target. Please tell me that CVA wants to actually hold their territory rather than just go off to empire with a wimper at the first sign of a fight.

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  1. February 7, 2010 at 00:08

    I love that first picture. I’m stealing it to use one day.

  2. February 7, 2010 at 00:46

    I dont think the fact that they are roleplayers that is bringing CVA down.
    CVA were roleplayers once, and a core still is today, but I think provi mostly consists of carebears and leeches.

    And a leech is easy to squish.

    Some guy in UK said it on a comment of the old war when they lost UNITY station (that weΒ΄re taking back)
    Back then it was a small core of Roleplayers from UK vs CvA that were fighting, but CvA brought in huge numbers of everyone to fight for them.. that worked then, against a small dedicated force their large blob of imbecils won.

    That will not work today against a large force of hardened PvPers.

  3. February 7, 2010 at 01:01

    That last picture is certainly what things are looking like. CVA did what they could in D-GTMI and the lost a lot of ships.

    So far, resistance in 9uy4-H is very low, but today was only the first station timer. Tomorrow is the iHub and they may show up to defend that. Monday is the last timer on the station, I would expect they would make a stand as they did in D-GTMI.

    We can only see what will happen. The reality of the situation is that -A- could have wiped them out a long time ago, but there was a border respect that both sides were willing to maintain for the sake of being able to shoot each other for fun, very similar to the Red vs Blue perma-war in high sec space.

    Many will way it was only a matter of time before -A- decided to steamroll through -A- space, but I think they would have maintained the status quo if it had not been for the invasion into Catch when -A- was attacking Goonswarm.

  4. Masada Akiva
    February 7, 2010 at 01:17

    D-GTMI was not a military victory of any sort. The node was overloaded. Most of the CVA fleet was killed while logged off because their grids would not load. The initial 30 CVA losses in the failed POS bubble were legit. A better tactic would have been to drop the POS shield as suggested. Easy to say that now, you weren’t the FC at the time with responsibility of the CVA capital fleet. The -A- FC’s would appear to be more experienced in fleet battles. But this fact is not a reflection of RP or not RP… it is just experience. The fact is that CVA/Providence haven’t had to fight in a long time. A fact that inspired the Catch campaign to begin with.

    Now it is clear that moving a large fleet in to a system already containing a hostile fleet is hopelessly broken. CVA simply won’t engage that way again. Dominion grid load problems make that tactic suicidal.

    CVA’s refusal to accommodate -A- as a soft target playground is somewhat roleplay inspired. The alliance between -A- and Ushra’Khan makes -A- a natural target. It may not make any strategic sense to poke a stick at a big bear, but this is Eve… what else we got to do?

  5. February 7, 2010 at 03:38

    Someday, when it doesn’t matter, I will tell you exactly why what is happening now is happening. For now, cheers!

    @Yargok: every region has its share of “carebears and leeches”. Say what you want about the intelligence / capability of providence residents, I think the massacre in D-G at least demonstrates a willingness to try and fight. You’re winning at the moment; insulting us with name calling is not necessary.

    • evemonkey
      February 7, 2010 at 11:39

      I’ll be very interested to hear it πŸ™‚ I guess I was very dissapointed after the good show of effort in D-G to not have any resistance defending a more important system.

      I’ll try not to judge and sorry if this post came accross as spiteful or whiney. see you tomorrow night perhaps?

  6. February 7, 2010 at 05:15

    I’ve no special insight on the situation in Providence, but I will say that your assumption that roleplayers are not hardcore gamers doesn’t necessarily hold. Lots of roleplayers also powergame (or whatever other term you like for “play to win”). Whatever troubles CVA has, they don’t stem solely from the fact that their characters support the Amarr Empire. If that held true, U’K wouldn’t play the role in the current assault that it does…

  7. February 7, 2010 at 14:08

    What I meant about carebears and leeches, is that while CVA can field a good many pilots on paper, many in their ranks are simple miners or ones only in it for themselves..
    If you apply to a pvp alliance, you kind of sign up to go fight, if you sign up for a mining corp in 0.0 i expect you go there to mine.

    Nothing bad against them, if this was a mining contest IΒ΄d be spanked.. but this is war, and CvA might want to check their roster before agressing.

  8. Markus
    February 8, 2010 at 09:33

    Well … fun fun fun … all what you need to conquer any system in eve is 800 ships in system and wait to reinforce will over

    And thats what happen in D-G … I was in fleet which jumped into … I never load the system …. and after about one and half hour they shoot me down … without load of system πŸ˜€

    Yep … great victory of -a- πŸ˜€

    I dont cry or complain … just wrote simple fact …

  9. Guderian3
    February 9, 2010 at 07:27

    ‘Roleplaying’ has very little to do with ‘winning.’

    CVA policy has for a long time been based on roleplay, AIUI the initial choice to take Providence was based on roleplay, NRDS the crowning jewel of CVA, is based on roleplay.

    Militarily, roleplay doesn’t affect CVA in a sense. It’s not like we only fly Amarr ships, or whatever. We don’t expect Jamyl Sarum to rescue us with the Amarr Navy.

    I won’t comment on our FC’s abilities or shiptypes, the results are clear.

    If there has been one thing that has harmed CVA militarily it’s the refusal to metagame. Surprisingly, it’s not based on RP, the Amarr Empire uses spies and espionage all the time, it’s based on ‘our’ opinion that its cheating. Whether or not that’s really the case its open to personal perspective, but it is clear that when -A- is using it and CVA is not, CVA has a major disadvantage.

    • evemonkey
      February 9, 2010 at 09:38

      For the record, I disapprove of most forms of metagaming. I should also try to stop myself writing ranty posts like this and write more neutral battle reports.

      I guess I was just disappointed, over the past 2 years I’ve built CVA and the proviholders up in my mind as this indestructible force, which for 9UY it turned out not to be.

      I hope this experience has taught the Provi Holder alliances that they need to get a bit more experience in sov wars and perhaps implement a capital ship subsidy/replacement program, among other things.

      Nothing hardens you like adversity.

  10. Anonymous
    February 9, 2010 at 11:01

    First of, the proviblock only lost d-g because of grid lag, -A- took the field first, and due to the unfortunate issues introduced in dominion, it appears that whoever takes the grid first wins.

    Your corp then proceded to rub it in by bumping out pilots out of a POS bubbles using passwords they got their hands on by placing spies within CVA, underhand tactic that the Provibloc would never use.

    The people of Providence have a loyalty that -A- players don’t have. You sound like a glory supporter, jumping to whichever corp you feel you will win with, maybe you should think about trying to stick it out with an underdog alliance and try and put up the best fight you can facing overwhelming odds.

    What I understand the least about -A- is that they completely missed the oppertunity to take advantage of the fall of goonswarm. Delve region is worth so much more than Providence, yet you decide to fight for pointless little systems and make life difficult for an easier opponant when you could have push full force into delve and taken over that region. Instead you let it fall to IT Alliance, who I believe will want to come for your blood in the not-too-distant future.

    Yeah you can bully the proviblock, but think about it in the long term, its going to be much better to clear out, leave them too it, and concentrate on bigger enemies. Even if you push them out, -A- will fall eventually, and you wont stick with them, you’ll jump into the next strongest corp that will let you in… Loyalty is more important than brute strength.

  11. Markus
    February 9, 2010 at 12:06

    If all will go well … the game will be fine … but with that amount of lags … it is impossible to defend any sov with large fleets conflicts … and who will conquer any system with only 50 ships … 50 ships fleets are nothing extra … there was 1600 ships in d-g and attackers shoot us like ducks on lake …. πŸ˜€ … we wait for load grid and they fly over us and train “PvP” on static targets πŸ˜€ … I was really surprised about game … 😦
    And with that info … are you really disappointed about defenders still ?
    Defending 9uy will be 2nd D-G and it will be again glory victory …..

    But all what I wrote is my personal view of that “game” ….

    • evemonkey
      February 9, 2010 at 12:47

      @Markus and @Anonymous: I’m going to write another blog post, but which will be a bit more constructive than the rant that I posted here and I’ll offer some suggestions.

      I still am dissapointed yes. with D-G you had the right idea – you counter attacked by placing SBU’s in our critical systems – that’s the way to do it! reinforce our high end moons, coordinate your stealth bomber fleets properly, organise incursions to harrass our mining operations or to disrupt our capital ship construction. Get friends to help you (ok, so goonswarm isn’t there any more but how many alliances are there in the providence region? good on you for bringing in the NC, but it’s perhaps slightly late?)

      if you’re saying that 9uy was going to be just another D-G why didn’t you try to lock it down while we only had 150 in system? I remember a couple of nights ago a 50 man battleship fleet broke out a freighter from 9uy and caused our support fleet to hide in our pos for 20 mins or so. that’s the way to fight!

      are all systems that -A- attack going to be “just another D-G” so you won’t bother defending at all?

  12. Markus
    February 9, 2010 at 13:07

    @evemonkey: yep … in that I can agree with you about “taking 9uy” … but

    In “higher politics” that I am not member there are decisions that we cannot understand. As if there is CTA then I am looking for my ship and go die (or survive :-D) … not concerning politics πŸ™‚

    In that we are equal. Doing what they tell us.
    And … I hope you understand me now … I will not tell you what are my “orders” for now πŸ™‚

    PS: with goons we were no friends !! you little misplaced in that … goons (or anything what left form that) are still pure red in our overviews πŸ™‚

    • evemonkey
      February 9, 2010 at 13:37

      yes, I do admit that I don’t know what’s going on in the upper politics of either alliance. Kirith has alluded to goings on that mean that there are reasons so I guess I should be quiet. πŸ™‚

      and… ok! ok! goons are not friends of provi! I get it and will never mention it again! πŸ˜€

  13. February 10, 2010 at 08:38

    Not friends no, but when goons tells provi to attack, provi attacks.

    Evidence of provi talking with NC/goons can be red on Kugutsumen by everyone. πŸ˜‰

    Why do you think NC declared war on -A- after we took 9uY?? πŸ™‚

  14. Markus
    February 10, 2010 at 09:10

    @yargok: yep … and USA destroys world every day … we can read and hear it from Al Jazeera … every day … so it must be true then … its writen there and they have their proves ….
    With no offence all what was writen everywhere “may” be true … but who knows ?
    If I single (or group) goon (or other pirate!!) enter to provi there will be fleet to stop and pod him(them). This is “friendship” ? πŸ˜€

  1. February 10, 2010 at 01:18

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