Home > Politics > The fighting spirit

The fighting spirit

This (trying very hard not to be ranting) post was mainly inspired by a comment on my (mostly ranting) post here.

Here is the comment in question but feel free to read the entire discussion on the original post:

First of, the proviblock only lost d-g because of grid lag, -A- took the field first, and due to the unfortunate issues introduced in dominion, it appears that whoever takes the grid first wins.
Your corp then proceded to rub it in by bumping out pilots out of a POS bubbles using passwords they got their hands on by placing spies within CVA, underhand tactic that the Provibloc would never use.
The people of Providence have a loyalty that -A- players don’t have. You sound like a glory supporter, jumping to whichever corp you feel you will win with, maybe you should think about trying to stick it out with an underdog alliance and try and put up the best fight you can facing overwhelming odds.
What I understand the least about -A- is that they completely missed the oppertunity to take advantage of the fall of goonswarm. Delve region is worth so much more than Providence, yet you decide to fight for pointless little systems and make life difficult for an easier opponant when you could have push full force into delve and taken over that region. Instead you let it fall to IT Alliance, who I believe will want to come for your blood in the not-too-distant future.
Yeah you can bully the proviblock, but think about it in the long term, its going to be much better to clear out, leave them too it, and concentrate on bigger enemies. Even if you push them out, -A- will fall eventually, and you wont stick with them, you’ll jump into the next strongest corp that will let you in… Loyalty is more important than brute strength.

Yes, I admit that I am an alliance grunt, I have no knowledge of what either CVA or -A-/U’K have in store for the future, so perhaps I’m missing quite a lot somewhere. Perhaps providence has some epic smackdown planned. I’d also like to admit that I feel no ill will whatsoever, I am not bitterly ranting like Helicity Bson did in the epic post about carebears far from it.

I’d just like to address a couple of issues, the first of which is that I have switched alliances to be part of the winning team. In doing so I also hope to demonstrate that despite being an alliance grunt, I know something about defence in both pre and post dominion.

First of all: I did not leave Mostly Harmless (part of the Northern coalition) solely due to the fact that they were on the back foot. In fact, from the moment I entered nullsec until when I left in early January I have only been fighting defensive wars.

We fought against Tri, although that was before I started this blog

We fought against Evoke continuously, holding on, sometimes with the rest of the Northern Coalition, often by ourselves to the critical stations in Cloud ring. When they got the advantage and held our station systems, we fought back.

We fought against Sons of Tangra by ourselves, as they struck into our critical high-end moon systems and staged their entire capital fleet just outside our home region. We won because we counter attacked and they made mistakes. We did not stop harassing them on their home turf. Heck – we reinforced their R64 moons by deep incursions in frikking stealth bombers. We camped their jump bridges, we brought as many people we could to the fight.

We fought against Pandemic Legion who were hell bent on reclaiming all our R64’s just before dominion hit. They presented so much of a threat that we ended up losing the entire region of cloud ring to Evoke while we were defending our home systems. But still we made an effort to harass Evoke and yes, we got wiped out often also but we gave as much as we got. yes, ok, sometimes the northern coalition managed capital blobs. but when the NC weren’t backing us and we faced superior forces in a cyno jammed system we got into stealth bombers and executed coordinated attacks on their RR battleship fleet and made sure that we at least had sub capital fights rather than loosing a system without a fight at all.

Again, we tried to fight off evoke. Here we were fighting a war on both fronts. Pandemic Legion in the heart of our systems in Pure Blind and Evoke making a very good effort to take over cloud ring. We made some very bad mistakes and lost a lot of ships, but immediately afterwards got back into stealth bombers and executed coordinated attacks on PL’s battleship fleets. (the more perceptive here may note the recurring “get in frikking stealth bombers” theme here). Even after the entire Northern coalition tried to force Evoke out, but after some initial success we had to pull back, leaving Cloud Ring to the hostiles.

And again Triumverate came, and we fought against them but also didn’t let evoke take cloud ring without a fight. I didn’t write about the battles where evoke came and destroyed our r64’s in cloud ring because they had more in fleet. I didn’t write about the hours spent sitting staring at a system being totally ripped apart by hostiles because screenshot opportunities were hard to come by. Nor do I write blog posts about the hours spent sitting in a covert ops ship trying to find out where the hostile jump bridges are or which pos’s have Capital ship construction facilities, or where the enemy stages from because that is seriously boring stuff. I write about epic battles, whether we win or loose or even when the battles don’t happen but we made an effort. At one point it was so bad that we were told to move to an NPC station because we didn’t think we could hold Pure Blind. We also had our main staging system attacked, and destroyed prior to which I spent hours ferrying alliance assets out to a rear staging point. And a week of logging off in the ever decreasing number of pos’s in system.

As for the few fights I have had in providence. I have to say, I’ve only been here 2 weeks, I don’t know the history behind -A- and Proviblock, so I have no grudge or any emotion about this. The fight in D-G was great – and I don’t mean great in the fact that we won completely and utterly, I mean great in the fact that Providence actually tried to win. In fact, if I would say that the fight wasn’t satisfying at all. Read this post: Turkey Shoot and you’ll see my views on one fleet wholesale slaughtering another fleet. You’ll see that it is not enjoyable, I would much rather have my ship destroyed and me be podded ten times over if it meant we could have a good bit of a fight.

The reason why I am disappointed with CVA is that there is no resistance, there is no counter attack, you’re not deploying SBU’s in GE-, you’re not harassing our jump bridge network. Did you know that if you incapacitate a jump bridge or pos-based cyno generator, we have to rep it up or kill it entirely before we can online another one? Do you know how freaking long that takes? You can do that with a smallish battleship fleet and therefore prevent reinforcements coming to the front lines and/or divert valuable assets away in order to fix the logistics network. Put together a fleet of 40 or so stealth bombers, find a valuable POS of ours that has only large guns on it and reinforce it or kill cyno generators! If the tower starts to target you, cloak up! make it a war of attrition, leave alts cloaked up in our carebear systems and our staging station systems. harrass our undock points, camp our jump bridges! Don’t just sit there whining about grid lag on a battle that happened half a month ago. Do something!

As for the station loss itself: With the new Sov mechanics, you have 5 days or so, and two major battles with which to reset the attack. Control the system yourselves and the enemies won’t be able to gain it back without a lot of effort. That goes for both sides, attacking or defending In case you didn’t notice, a combined force of -A- and IT alliance was pushed back by goonswarm when we (I wasn’t here at the time) tried to take 49U from them. You’ll notice that goonswarm, despite being at a timezone disadvantage managed to prevail against a superior force. Don’t tell me it’s impossible for CVA to at least try the same, yet over those 5 days sieging 9UY there was no concerted effort to take back the system. there was the occasional freighter breakout fleets and the occasional solo stealth bomber (solo stealth bombers won’t do much at all, get in a group and coordinate your targets and warpings) but that was it. As I have said, I don’t know the reasons high up in CVA for this, but I’m under the impression that it was a major psychological blow to all providence holders, and indeed it was intended to be. -A- doesn’t want that system! we just wanted the psychological blow that it would deliver and we succeeded in that.

Finally, I’d like to state the obvious: holding nullsec requires fighting. If you’re not capable of fighting, then you need to be good friends with an alliance who is. That is the way of it. it’s not “unfair” it’s not “bullying” I don’t even understand what you mean by that…. it’s just the game mechanics. you’re in 0.0 you are not going to get a free ride. I do understand that there are a lot of people in providence itching for a fight. It remains a leadership problem then if you don’t get what you want.

Perhaps it’s not relevant now, U’K have 9UY and are NRDS therefore with the exception of D-G, the holders of Providence region are still NRDS. -A- is withdrawing from the offensive for the short term. perhaps this is the politics that I’ve been missing, perhaps this was intended by CVA.

Still, CVA would do well to heed what confucius said. A quote that I have in my Bio:

The superior man, when resting in safety, does not forget that danger may come. When in a state of security he does not forget the possibility of ruin. When all is orderly, he does not forget that disorder may come. Thus his person is not endangered, and his States and all their clans are preserved. – Confucius (circa 551-479 BC)

Please don’t misunderstand me, I’m not trying to twist the knife, I’m trying to exhort you to take control yourselves!

oooh, and again finally: I’d like to sincerely thank the CVA and proviholder members who have posted on this blog – I appreciate being corrected on things like the relationship with goons and the fact that I’m missing political goings on that are over my grunt-like position in the alliance. I never got that honest feedback when I was in the NC. Being able to have an open dialogue with your enemies is certainly refreshing. I will approve any comments posted on this blog usually within 12 hrs at the latest (I usually post at night and I need my sleepy time) so please be patient if it doesn’t appear immediatly.

  1. February 10, 2010 at 08:33

    Ugh, I just cant stand some posters.. the ones that are so delusional and wrong, yet still parade around self-righteous and belittling.

    No silly commentator, it turned into a turkeyshoot because your FCs did some bad calls, its been stated a hundred times over..

    Also, “placing spies within CVA, underhand tactic that the Provibloc would never use.” is crap.
    I´ve seen two spies uncovered during this campaign by my own eyes, however, when you do have cap ships in a pos, change the password.
    I am sure all CvA know what A´s and UKs normal pos PW is, but they dont use that all the time, for instance when a bunch of titans are in a pos 😉

    I like your “why attack us! you should be taking advantage of the fall of goonswarm bla bla”
    -You attacked us remember? cant let you do that again, so no turning back again thankyouverymuch.

  2. Anonymous
    February 10, 2010 at 11:45

    Wow, wasn’t expecting a full blog entry just in reply to my post 😮

    Guess I should of really read your back history fully before posting that. I had you down as a completely different type of player as a new reader of your blog and only reading one post. I’m going to be doing a lot of back-reading now as you seem pretty legendary.

    I think the politics in this war as so diverse that only the highest echelons of the CVA council / -A- leadership really know what is going on. But the best thing to do is study the history of this region of space.

    CVA, LFA, Paxton, -A-, etc have been residents of this space for years. Just look at the July 2008 manual sov map to prove this: http://www.eve-files.com/media/corp/CRII/Latest.jpg

    The Proviblock and -A- have always had uneasy politics, but have always enjoyed each others company as both sides don’t mind having a bit of a fire-fight now and then. Space is boring with complete peace, no1 dies, and having allies all around you is never fun.

    This latest war is all the proviblocs fault though, 100%, they decided to get greedy and push into catch while -A- were away fighting goons, a decision I don’t think they thought about the repercussions of. -A- come back from their little excursion to find several systems missing, and unleash hell on D-G in retaliation.

    Heavy resistance is put up, but due to sheer capital and super-capital numbers, and lag issues D-G falls in one of the biggest battles eve has ever seen.

    Things go quiet for a few days, LFA manage to forge a NAP with -A- allowing both sides to fight as long as it doesn’t involve soverignty in any way, only roams. This takes LFA comepletely out of the equation in fleet battles with the provibloc loosing over 1000 able pilots for defence. CVA get sorely pissed off, threaten to boot LFA from the holders agreement and ask them to either fire their leadership or vacate their systems. More diplomacy ensues and leads to CVA having an uneasy peace with LFA, and -A- launching an offensive into 9uy.

    I think in 9uy the policy was light resistance, not to give -A- the fight they were looking for, and to place SBU’s in other systems, something that only slowed the progress of -A- for about an hour or so.

    I think CVA have pretty much rolled over now, want their original relationship with -A- back where both sides don’t attack sov but they get a little pew pew now and then. And now they may not even offer resistance to -A- hoping -A- get bored sitting and putting structures into reinforcement with no resistance. Thats where we are today.

    Another thing you would need to look at is… Why do -A- want providence?

    As regions go its pretty poor, low moon quality, poor quality roids, and if they took the whole lot and tagged onto the side of their space they are going to be paying an awful lot of rental for not a lot of return.

    So why are they moving in and taking strategic systems? Maybe its just to have staging points to quel any CVA uprising in the future? Or possibly just a show of force to make the provibloc know they should be happy with what they have got and not to go for more space ever again? Only -A- leadership know the true purpose of these attacks…

    Oh and Yargok, if thats true then Provibloc grunts are being lied to, the CVA council’s official stance is that spies will not be used, and they have been told this many times accross many vent servers.
    And the reason I pointed out the fall of goonswarm is that it is widely known that Delve is one of the most lucrative pieces of real estate in the whole of New Eden. Good belts, good moon quality, good rats, and the whole region is pretty easy to defend compared to other regions. Thats why the largest alliances in game make it their home. Thats why BOB lived there, thats why Goons swarmed there after the fall of BOB, and thats why IT Alliance fought to get it back.

  3. February 10, 2010 at 13:44

    Evemonkey, love your blog, keep up the good work.

  4. February 10, 2010 at 14:14

    Unfortunately, even though I am a part of Sys-K who was there in the battle of D-G, I did not realize what was happening and only logged in as the battle was pretty much coming to a close. HOWEVER, I just have to say this because I grow tired of the complaints from CVA folks talking about how they lost their capitals due to lag issues.

    As it’s been said time and time and time again, lag is something an experienced FC will know how to deal with. In terms of grid load issue, the argument here is that “-A- took the field first”, and thus the reason they won. From what I understand, that’s entirely false. From what I understood, CVA already had capitals present and decided to jump out then jump back in. A very serious error to make when dealing with lag.

    As for taking Delve, -A-, as Mr Anonymous pointed out himself, have been in their current location for a long time. They’re obviously making enough where they are to survive and thrive. They also have a solid logistics network in place as well as tons of assets firmly planted in that region. To consider uprooting ALL of that and making a move on Delve would be one hell of a headache and thus probably just not considered a viable choice.

  5. February 11, 2010 at 06:35

    I love the null-sec politics and battle reports! Keep the great writing coming. Great comments, too.

  6. Markus
    February 11, 2010 at 09:00

    @selina: I never talked about caps. I was in support fleet. We (I think) had to help to caps with jump in to system and support cap battle at POS. But we never arrived into system. Who knows how the cap battle will end if we join that.

    Maybe the result will be the same … but … maybe not … who knows … 🙂

    And … in opposing of your post … I am tired about posts where -a- and alies talk about grate battle and great victory in D-G (with completely loaded grid). 😀

    PS: I think the difference is in fact … that provi will never use game mechanic to fight against anybody. Its below our level. 🙂 …. With this I dont mean that you fought without honor …

    PPS: sorry for my english sometimes 🙂 (not my native, but I am trying :-D)

    • evemonkey
      February 11, 2010 at 09:53

      your english is fine 🙂 it will be good to move forward from the whole D-G thing – I hope it hasn’t dampened the spirits of proviblock too much. hopefully the fighting in J6QB-P will re-ignite the fire 😀

  7. Markus
    February 11, 2010 at 10:20

    Well … yep evemonkey … proviblock.

    Thats very special part of space in EVE. I am wondering every day why there are ppl shooting us (pirates). We are not in war and we take care just about our bussines and they come and annoy us 😀
    It is caused by NRDS ? Maybe. But I like living in provi. And I cannot imagine that NBSI. How can ppl grow without access to 0.0? Maybe the provi is a good place as “welcome” to 0.0 and later ppl just join another big corp or alliance with their skills improved in provi space.

    PS: last wardecs from hired corps are really … fun 😀

    • evemonkey
      February 11, 2010 at 13:11

      definately NRDS is good for eve as a whole – my first experience in nullsec was flying down the dital pipe. got my first jump clone at a -7- station even.

      NBSI isn’t bad at all though – you just have to be on the blue side. I certainly feel safer undocking in a system that has only blues in it than I do in highsec 1.0 systems.

  8. Markus
    February 11, 2010 at 13:59

    Yaeh … my first JC is from mamet … but dead months ago 😀

    NBSI looks good if you have some wardecs. Then your own space is only safe place. For me is highsec more safe then provi usually. Now with some wardecs I am not safe either in provi or highsec. 😦

    That is my look on that. Maybe some other ppl open my eyes 🙂

    • evemonkey
      February 11, 2010 at 14:26

      come join -A- you’ll be safe in catch then 😀

  9. Steve
    February 11, 2010 at 14:28

    What I don’t understand is why everyone rushes to join a Russian Corp? Do people not remember the cold war 😉 I though Americans would stick together…

    • evemonkey
      February 11, 2010 at 16:19

      right… given the fact that I’m Australian living in Europe I have no sense of loyalty to the USians whatsoever, in fact I feel hard done by over the so called free trade agreement that Aus and the US have in place so I’m more inclined to do exactly the opposite. 🙂 But of course we shouldn’t bring politics into such things as computer games 😀

  10. Markus
    February 11, 2010 at 15:54

    I am not sure … I have a big sense of loyalty with corp that I am member.

    It is related with my RL sense to that. Damn personal feelings …. 😀

  1. May 6, 2012 at 04:14

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